I believe this title is probably the most politically outspoken title for a Biennale in Venice, yet it possesses a strong poetic dimension as well. These days everything is very sensitive and there is always the possibility of instrumentalization. The risk simply comes with the job and with a project as important as the Biennale, with its enormous impact.

MS_The artwork series Foreigners Everywhere by Claire Fontaine promotes estrangement as a positive and stimulating factor for culture and society. How did the connection between you and the collective come about?
Over the years, I worked with collective Claire Fontaine on a few occasions, one of which stands out as the first exhibition with non-Brazilians in what is called the Panorama da Arte Brasileira (Panorama of Brazilian Art) at the Museu de Arte Moderna de São Paulo (São Paulo Museum of Modern Art). The Panorama is devoted to contemporary Brazilian art, and for that particular edition, in 2009, I decided to exclusively invite foreign artists, playing with the concept of what is Brazilian and what is foreign, of what defines Brazilian artists versus artists who, though not native to Brazil, create works informed by Brazilian culture, language, and art. Claire Fontaine also participated in the exhibition. They conducted a residency during which they created two neon artworks: one in Old Tupi, an extinct Brazilian indigenous language, which served as the title of the exhibition, Mamõyguara Opá Mamõ Pupé, and another in Portuguese, Estrangeiros em todo lugar, both translating to Foreigners Everywhere. Thus, Claire Fontaine and I have already collaborated on an exhibition titled Foreigners Everywhere, but in a language that no one really understands anymore. Then, in 2010 we presented an installation at the Jumex Collection in Mexico City. The exhibition was titled The Traveling Show and centered around the idea of travel. For that exhibition, all the neon works created by Claire Fontaine were installed in various areas of the Foundation. The image we’ve selected for the press presentation this year is taken from that exhibition and features the phrase Extranjeros en todo lugar, which translates to Foreigners Everywhere in Spanish. We also collaborated in 2011 for the Istanbul Biennial, although in this case Claire Fontaine participated with a different work. Thus, my collaboration with her spans many years, fueling ongoing exploration of these themes. Claire Fontaine and I feel deeply connected to something here. We believe it’s crucial to underline that amidst the several meanings this title encompasses, there is at least a dual significance. The first connotation is that wherever you go, there are foreigners everywhere, but equally, wherever you find yourself, you are always a foreigner deep within yourself. Hence, I believe these two dimensions are at play.

I prefer working with titles that are more palpable, precise, yet still layered and poetic, with a political dimension as well as several meanings, and eventually incorporating linguistic elements as well.

MS_What elements led to their reflection becoming the manifesto of your Biennale?
In 2011, shortly after Istanbul, I had the opportunity to visit the Venice Biennale at a leisurely pace, some time after the hectic days of the opening events. Being there alone, walking around on my own, allowed me to engage in a curatorial exercise. I reflected on the challenge of coming up with a meaningful framework that would effectively communicate while maintaining some precision. I often think that the titles of the Biennale tend to be rather open, rather vague and all-encompassing. Curators are obviously free in their approach. More often than not, the title serves as just that – a broad framework for the exhibition. Personally, I prefer working with titles that are more palpable, precise, yet still layered and poetic, with a political dimension as well as several meanings, and eventually incorporating linguistic elements as well. So, back then, as I wandered through the Biennale speculating on an interesting framework for the event, I came up with Stranieri Ovunque. At that moment, I didn’t expect to ever curate the Biennale, but I found the phrase compelling. First, because it pays homage to an Italian artist, or rather, a half-Italian artist, Claire Fontaine – a conceptual collective founded in Paris by Fulvia Carnevale, an Italian woman, and James Thornhill, an Irish man, who are now living and working in Palermo. Moreover, it nods to a political activist group based in Turin during the early 2000s, dedicated to fighting racism and xenophobia. Naturally, this title wouldn’t merely encapsulate an exhibition centered on the struggle against racism and xenophobia; it possesses a poetic dimension that lends itself to a broader interpretation. It could manifest as an exhibition solely featuring foreigners or immigrants. That’s how I arrived at the title. I had it in the back of my mind. And, of course, it was only when Roberto Cicutto started to talk to me about the possibility of being the curator of the Biennale that I began to delve deeper into the concept. I started to think about how to unfold, elaborate, and refine this framework. In other words, I began to engage with it in a more significant way, aligning it with what is relevant right now.

LS_Searching on the internet, we couldn’t find any references or writings about the original work by the Turin collective. Have they reached out to you? Are they still functioning as a collective at all?
I’ve discussed this with Claire Fontaine, and they mentioned that the Turin collective seems to have disappeared. They recall encountering a leaflet, flyer, or printed material on them, which prompted their adoption of the title, but they never established any direct contact. As far as we know, the collective is no longer active. However, Fulvia Carnevale recently mentioned to me that they have come across some information about them, suggesting a bit more of a connection. But to answer your question, no, they didn’t get in touch. When you google “Foreigners Everywhere,” all you find is Claire Fontaine… And now, of course, the Biennale.

MS_Given the political implications of the main framework, have you ever considered the risk that it could be instrumentalized?
I believe this title is probably the most politically outspoken title for a Biennale in Venice, yet it possesses a strong poetic dimension as well. These days everything is very sensitive and there is always the possibility of instrumentalization. The risk simply comes with the job and with a project as important as the Biennale, with its enormous impact. Reading the newspapers and various Italian reviews, you will notice how it is appropriated in different, sometimes contradictory ways. I have come across articles asserting it is too left-wing, while others claim it is too conservative. Ultimately, it’s out there in the world, and it’s impossible to control all people’s understating and interpretations. That would be outside our remit and not what we want. But when we’re compiling statements, considering context, and particularly selecting the wording for a project, we’re always very careful about how things might be interpreted or appropriated. We try to be very cautious, yet sometimes, interpretations go into unexpected territory. This is particularly true when addressing sensitive issues and reaching such a wide audience. It must also be said that it’s definitely not just my voice at play here, given the presence of so many artists participating in the exhibition. Their voices, understandings, thoughts, and works also contribute significantly to the overall discourse.

What I did with the notion of “foreigner”/“stranger” is unfold it into the concepts of “queer”, “indigenous”, and “outsider” – those subjects or artists existing and operating outside the norm and beyond traditional art circuits and academia, some of whom may be self-taught. This connects back to my own life experience in Brazil and the rest of Latin America, where there’s a significant presence of artistas populares,

MS_Both Anna Maria Maiolino e Nil Yalter, this year’s Golden Lions for Lifetime Achievement, define themselves as self-taught artists. How do you see the concept of Foreigners Everywhere intersecting with the notion of outsider art, particularly in relation to artists operating beyond traditional art circuits?
What I did with the notion of “foreigner”/“stranger” is unfold it into the concepts of “queer”, “indigenous”, and “outsider” – those subjects or artists existing and operating outside the norm and beyond traditional art circuits and academia, some of whom may be self-taught. This connects back to my own life experience in Brazil and the rest of Latin America, where there’s a significant presence of artistas populares, artists coming from the people. Despite their relevance, I believe these artists have often been marginalized and overlooked in the context of 20th-century art history and Modernism. Although they are gradually receiving more attention now – such as at the São Paulo Museum of Modern Art, where they are featured in various programs, projects, and exhibitions – I thought it was important to showcase their works at the Biennale. As for Europe, there aren’t as many artists from or born in the continent who could be included in this definition, while there are numerous migrant artists who have moved to cities such as London, Paris, Rome, New York, and Berlin. Nonetheless, I was trying to think which outsider artists from Europe I found compelling, which led me to prioritize the presence of three major, iconic women artists. Specifically, Madge Gill, from the UK, renowned as a significant figure in outsider Art Brut circles, and Aloïse, another major figure, from Switzerland. Despite the numerous exhibitions dedicated to their work, neither had previously participated in the Biennale. Anna Zemánková from the Czech Republic, who had previously been featured in Massimiliano Gioni’s exhibition, completes the trio. These three women stand among the most iconic outsider artists in Europe, representing marginalized groups that I believed needed to have a platform at the Biennale.

LS_Whitin the conceptual framework of Foreigners Everywhere, what drove your decision to include artists like Lina Bo Bardi and Anna Maria Maiolino, who may not have been widely recognized in the art world but had some recognition during their lifetimes, alongside others who are still struggling with marginalization and lack of recognition?
The concept of being a “foreigner” encompasses a diverse array of subjectivities and life experiences, reflected in the wide panorama of foreign artists participating in this Biennale. You highlighted two prominent figures of the Italian diaspora in Brazil, underscoring the breadth of backgrounds represented. Beside artists relevant in their own countries and contexts who may not have taken a prominent position in the international art circuit, both in the “Nucleo storico” and elsewhere, we also find iconic figures like Frida Kahlo, who has contributed significantly to Modernism and the global South but has never been featured in the Biennale. As a Brazilian coming to work in Italy, it’s a tremendous privilege to have had the opportunity to introduce such a significant figure as Anna Maria Maiolino to the Biennale for the first time. I believe her inclusion is long overdue and will enrich the exhibition. Regarding Lina Bo Bardi, it’s notable that she faced significant resistance during her lifetime, and it wasn’t until around 2014, on the centennial of her birth, that much of her work began to emerge and receive widespread recognition. Moreover, my choice to include Lina Bo Bardi in the exhibition is driven by a specific reason. Diasporic art is one of the four focal points of the “Nucleo contemporaneo,” alongside queer, outsider, and indigenous art. Being only the second art curator from the global South in the Biennale’s long history, and the first to actually live and work in the global South, it’s essential for me to consider the Italian art scene as well. While I don’t have an Italian background myself, I come from a country that hosts the largest Italian diaspora worldwide. As the artistic director of the Museu de Arte Moderna de São Paulo, where there is a very strong Italian lineage since 1947, the inclusion of Lina Bo Bardi holds particular significance. Our founding director, Pietro Maria Bardi, was an Italian art critic and marchand who moved to Brazil and, a year later, founded the museum with Assis Chateaubriand, making many Italian acquisitions. Lina Bo Bardi herself designed the building and many exhibition displays, including the iconic glass easels. Therefore, I thought that if we’re talking about diasporas, if we are talking about foreigners, and given where I come from, it would be fitting to include a section called Italians Everywhere in the “Nucleo storico,” considering the widespread travels, movements, migrations, and immersion in local histories by Italians. This section features 40 artists of the Italian diaspora whose works are displayed in the beautiful and iconic exhibition setup designed by Lina Bo Bardi. This is how Lina Bo Bardi’s involvement initially takes shape in the exhibition. However, she also created many beautiful drawings, as evidenced by an exhibition of her drawings in Barcelona a few years ago. While she is primarily known as an architect, designer, thinker, exhibition maker, and set designer, I realized that she should also be recognized as an artist in the exhibition.

LS_Hearing you talk about Modernism reminded me of Bruno Latour’s theory of “jamais fomos modernos” (we have never been modern). It seems you take the opposite stance, suggesting that we will always be modern since modernity remains a significant paradigm in art history. What’s your message in bringing forgotten or overlooked modernists from various countries into relevance in the contemporary art world?
As I mentioned in an interview published in the Biennale catalogue, Modernism serves as a conceptual tool for examining certain artistic productions. I also referenced “antropofagia”, which is a modernist tool and a distinctly Brazilian approach involving the appropriation, digestion, and cannibalization of cultural references.  It was the primary focus of the 1998 Bienal de São Paulo, of which I served as adjunct curator. I believe it’s an incredibly important framework, and I still consider it a highly relevant tool for analyzing artistic productions in the global South. After delving into extensive research on Modernism, however, I find myself questioning whether it’s truly the most precise tool for analyzing all these artistic productions. It’s just one tool among many – a set of lenses through which we can view art. I would define it mostly around the crisis of representation in the visual arts, which makes it an interesting kind of tool. But I believe many artists, particularly from the global South, engaged with Modernism; they traveled to Paris, Rome, Berlin, London, and New York seeking exposure to its influences. It’s interesting how certain figures, such as the Brazilian artist Tarsila do Amaral and the Indian artist Amrita Sher-Gil, moved to Paris and began to rediscover their own roots, their indigenous and native references, imagery, characters, narratives, and histories, which are significantly reflected in their work. This aspect echoes the concept of “antropofagia”. Throughout the 20th century, numerous artists appropriated these so-called modernist idioms, digesting and transforming them into something of their own. I believe that Modernism maintains a distinctly Eurocentric focus since it originates and is primarily associated with Europe, but my understanding is that it does get appropriated and cannibalized in various parts of the world. I believe that the transformations of Modernism witnessed in regions such as Africa, Latin America, the Middle East, and South and Southeast Asia are even more powerful. In fact, I find it even more fascinating and dynamic today. This contemporary reimagining often feels more vibrant and vital than the original Modernism emanating from Europe. However, there are still purist modernists among art historians who feel that these contributions are not essential for our understanding of Modernism or 20th-century art. On the contrary, I believe that we require a more plural and diverse understanding. This is precisely what I aim to stimulate with the “Nucleo storico”. However, it’s important to note that it is definitely not an all-encompassing, encyclopedic, definitive proposal. To accomplish something more comprehensive, I would have required five or more years. The Biennale provides a unique opportunity to undertake such an endeavor within a relatively short timeframe, but all this project is not the product of a single year’s effort. It has been germinating for over a decade as I’ve traveled extensively and engaged in inquiry and research across various regions. Furthermore, it also relies on the advice and recommendations of curators, colleagues, critics, and writers from different parts of the world, whose insights have contributed in many ways.

Featured image: Photo Andrea Avezzù – Courtesy of La Biennale di Venezia